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Cannabis Marketing Live

Lights, Camera, Cannabis: Amplify Your Brand with CTV

October 31, 2024 • Jake Litke • Season 4 • Episode 5

If you're not including Connected TV (CTV) in your advertising strategies, you’re missing out on one of the most significant shifts in media consumption history. According to Nielsen, nearly 70% of U.S. households now have access to CTV, signaling a massive change in how people are consuming content.

In a crowded marketplace, brands and retailers that succeed are the ones that develop a strong brand promise and create lasting consumer loyalty. Connected TV (CTV) offers a unique opportunity to communicate your brand’s personality and values directly to consumers in a highly engaging, visual format. This webinar, featuring Andrew Rosenman, Founder & President of Arise Communications, will dive into how you can use CTV to tell your brand story, distinguish yourself from competitors, and build a loyal customer base that keeps coming back.

To become a category leader, it’s essential to invest in more than just marketing—it’s about investing in your story, your business, and your unique value proposition. Just like paying a premium for a Mercedes because of what the brand represents, your customers need to understand and feel the value of your offering. CTV allows you to showcase your brand in an impactful way, helping you rise above the rest in a sea of competitors.

By leveraging CTV, you can reach a wide audience while reinforcing your brand’s message at every stage of the funnel. This webinar will guide you through building consumer loyalty, enhancing brand perception, and developing a marketing strategy that differentiates you from the competition.

During our 60-minute webinar, you'll discover:

Building a Brand That Sticks: Learn how to use CTV to craft a powerful unique value prop and brand promise that resonates with consumers.
Establishing Consumer Loyalty Through Storytelling: Discover how CTV enables you to share your brand’s story through engaging video content that builds trust and fosters emotional connections.
Rising Above the Competition: How leading brands leverage CTV to reinforce their premium status, similar to luxury car brands that command a higher price because of the value they represent.

Join us to learn how CTV can help you stand out, connect with your audience, and become the leader in your category!

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Join thousands of others and gain access to exclusive cannabis marketing content, timely regulatory news, and advertising support: www.mediajel.com/cannabis-business-resource/

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Let's strategize

Want more great cannabis marketing tips?!

Join thousands of others and gain access to exclusive cannabis marketing content, timely regulatory news, and advertising support: www.mediajel.com/cannabis-business-resource/

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Let's strategize about your business: www.mediajel.com/contact-us/

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Jake: Okay, we are just getting the streaming running here. Give us a second.

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Jake: Sure.

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Jake: All right, I think we are good. Now. Yeah, we are live. Hello, everyone! Welcome to another installment of cannabis marketing. Live! I'm your host, Jake Litke. Today. We have Andrew Rosemond on the show today. So we are going to be talking about Ctv connected TV,

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Jake: but before we get into that, Andrew, maybe you could give us just a quick bio as it pertains to. You've been working in in Ctv. For a while and advertising as a whole. But tell us kind of how you found yourself here today on this webinar, whether you

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Jake: are happy about it or not.

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Andrew Rosenman: Well, so I had a bag thrown over my head and put in the back of the van, and I found myself here at this webinar.

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Jake: Right on.

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Andrew Rosenman: Is that it? So? I'm so I'm thrilled to be here.

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Andrew Rosenman: Let's see, Andrew Rosamund, the president of Horizon Communications, founded the company in 2,005. So we're going into our 20th year.

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Andrew Rosenman: I was a big agency guy

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Andrew Rosenman: and was

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Andrew Rosenman: really fortunate to have

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Andrew Rosenman: started working on advanced TV what was called advanced TV or addressable TV in the earlier part of the 21st century.

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Andrew Rosenman: so went out of agency, started building up these platforms at places like Comcast and Rogers and other

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Andrew Rosenman: faces

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Andrew Rosenman: really enjoying that work. And now we are much more on the media side, and we are focused around media with a public purpose. So doing a lot of work for institutions and governments, getting messaging out, using advanced TV, that is

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Andrew Rosenman: beneficial to the public.

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Jake: Right.

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Jake: that's great. Well, thank you for that. And before we get into

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Jake: into Ctv, I always like to start with a little bit of a primer on video in general, because a lot of different formats and people tend to use

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Jake: different terms that that mean the same thing or sometimes not the same thing. So we have. Let's see, we've got ctv ott olv

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Jake: streaming pre-roll, post roll mid roll.

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Jake: let's talk a little bit about the evolution of video as an ad format available in the programmatic space. Because that is what we're going to be talking about. We're not really talking about linear, TV, although in some cases it looks the same to consumers at this point. But for the digital programmatic stuff.

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Jake: maybe you could just do a quick primer, so that as we start throwing out acronyms, people don't get overly confused.

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Andrew Rosenman: Can I give you a couple of other acronyms for.

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Jake: Yeah, sure, I'm trying. Which ones did I miss.

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Andrew Rosenman: Well, I mean clearly fast, right.

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Jake: Oh, yes! And that.

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Andrew Rosenman: That's

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Andrew Rosenman: that vast and fast right, cousins, but not not friends. And you know, we should probably do. Avod.

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Andrew Rosenman: since that's yeah. That was.

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Jake: Yeah.

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Andrew Rosenman: 2 2 parts of the family.

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Andrew Rosenman: Sure. Where do you want to begin? I mean, in fact, one of the 1st things I did for the good folks in Philly at Comcast was, build out

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Andrew Rosenman: an IP video advertising system back in 2,006.

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Andrew Rosenman: you want to talk about the programmatic side. So Olv or online video is anything that's showing up in your browser in a player.

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Andrew Rosenman: I'd say.

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Andrew Rosenman: I'd say, you know, get gets a little.

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Andrew Rosenman: Yeah. So let's say that, and let's leave Mobile on its own. And sort of, you know, in app mobile versus mobile web. And so olv to me is anything that shows up. IP video in a player on a browser, on your, on your desktop.

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Jake: Great and then connected TV is generally referring to something like a Samsung or Lg, like an actual television that either has smart TV functionality built into it like it's got embedded Roku or something, or they've got some sort of box connected to it, whether that's apple TV, Amazon fire, Google, whatever it is.

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Jake: So connected TV, when I think about it, is the actual physical device they're looking at.

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Jake: which falls in

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Jake: can fall in olv to a certain extent, because technically, because technically, it's online. But usually when people are referring to Olv versus Ctv, there's, you know, it's a different delivery endpoint. And subsequently different pricing, right.

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Andrew Rosenman: Well, specifically, it's different. User agent, too. Right? If you really, if you really wanna dig into it and start splitting hairs. I think the important thing to me about Ctv. Has always been.

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Andrew Rosenman: you know, and the like. This has been a bit of a Holy Grail. I mean, you're using all the great targeting and refinement segmentations that we use in online advertising. And we're delivering it to the largest screen in the house with 100 view ability. 4 k. You know, high, you know, stereo sound high impact, right? And and generally more than one person is watching at a time.

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Andrew Rosenman: So if you can, you know, just as a delivery format for branded messaging, you're, you know, until you're into, you know, fully immersive.

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Andrew Rosenman: you know, stuff that's that's that's about as good as you're gonna get.

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Jake: Yeah, so that's an important point you mentioned. There's definitely a lot of the when you're running an impression on Ctv, it's on the TV itself.

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Jake: You.

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Jake: I don't know what the numbers are. Maybe you do. But there's a lot of the time. There's gonna be more than one person seeing the ad, right? So you're kind of getting double potentially triple. The impression value, even though

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Jake: the audience themselves tend to cost more.

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Andrew Rosenman: I'd say the value of the impression, you know. If

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Andrew Rosenman: look, what's great is now, TV is transacting on an impression basis, right? People have been hoping for this for a long time, so here we have it. We you know it's a

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Andrew Rosenman: you get an integer. It's a countable number. The important part is less. You know. What is that multiplier? Is it 1.3 people who saw it? To me the value is sort of in the.

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Andrew Rosenman: in the psychology of the family and the purchase influencer.

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Andrew Rosenman: right? So, coming from automotive like I did.

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Andrew Rosenman: there are some surprising things that you learn that the number one influencer on new vehicle make model, purchase.

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Andrew Rosenman: Our children.

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Jake: Really.

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Andrew Rosenman: Yeah, so.

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Jake: I know that.

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Andrew Rosenman: So yeah, I mean it. It sounds odd when you 1st hear it. But like the parents are usually gonna you're gonna come up with. You know your consideration set right like you're you're not. You're not buying a Porsche 9, 11. And you're not buying a minivan like. Okay, it'll be a sedan, and it'll be one of these particular brands. But when you get into.

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Andrew Rosenman: hey guys, what do we like? The most? You know, kids go on. The test drives. And yes, the partner like.

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Andrew Rosenman: But yeah, huge influence on on new vehicle purchase kids. So do you advertise the kids? No. Are you glad they're there to influence the purchase absolutely. And it goes through same in every category. Right? So those additional people in the room.

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Andrew Rosenman: That's that look. That's why TV works.

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Jake: Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. And something you were

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Jake: just referring to is the concept of, you know, with traditional linear TV, this was generally bought on a Dma, or maybe a Zip code basis of like, or sometimes just a city where the ads are going to run the value that you get with programmatic is, you're now able to target specific households and use all of either your 1st party data that you have or 3rd party data sets in order to serve impressions specifically to the people that you want.

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Andrew Rosenman: True. And you know, in theory, it's more efficient. You're talking about

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Andrew Rosenman: sort of on a localized basis. So when you were buying locally, you were buying the entire reach of whatever local

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Andrew Rosenman: asset you had. Now.

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Andrew Rosenman: some ways that's good. If you're a furniture retailer with 5 locations in that service area. That's great. You're reaching lots of people. But if you're

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Andrew Rosenman: you know, let's say you're a hospital right? And you want people to choose

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Andrew Rosenman: come to ours. For these reasons we've got the most specialists.

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Andrew Rosenman: You probably want to find a Geo. Right, and

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Andrew Rosenman: stick with it as well as

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Andrew Rosenman: households. That may be in need of it, not the best example.

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Jake: Yeah, I think more like, you know, if you've got a product that is targeted to a a specific cohort of people like, whether it's based on gender or income, or or something else, you know, if you've got a hundred 1,000 people in the market, but really only 50,000 of them can be your customers. This gives you the ability to to push your budget towards people that are that are gonna be in your desired, you know.

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Jake: audience and not have the dreaded, you know, wasted impressions.

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Andrew Rosenman: Okay. So I'm gonna I'm gonna be a little bit of a devil's advocate.

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Jake: Okay, good. Yeah. Let's do it.

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Andrew Rosenman: Just because I can be. And and it's actually not my example. It comes from a really bright fellow who worked for Unilever.

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Andrew Rosenman: look, you can think of it as waste, or you can think of it as brand building. So the example was, you know, the Dove brand was always very focused around women, and that was very much their thing.

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Andrew Rosenman: Not so long ago they launched an extension of dove into dove men.

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Andrew Rosenman: Now you can say that those decades of dove advertising that was intended for women to respond to was wasted on every man who saw it.

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Andrew Rosenman: Or you can say that that Dove Brand established itself with those potential customers

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Andrew Rosenman: and made it possible for a multi-billion dollar brand extension to happen somewhat overnight. Right? Let's launch. So it depends on on how you view waste. Right? So look, if you're selling a rideable lawnmower.

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Andrew Rosenman: yeah, not everybody has 2 mobile acres, which I think was one of those thresholds on a on a right which is, which is great phrase.

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Andrew Rosenman: So 2 mobile acres right? Not everybody has that right? So somebody in an apartment building probably shouldn't be getting the John Deere riding mower app.

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Andrew Rosenman: but deliver that to folks who may be in market, and those are long cycles, anyway. So again, strange example. But why not.

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Jake: Yeah, well, I do like mobile acres. That's a new phrase for me. So I I like learning new.

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Andrew Rosenman: Credit to credit, to Bruce Anderson and the and the folks that in video who do addressable TV, I think that was always one of their case studies. So I don't. I don't want anyone to think that I'm borrowing it all credit to Bruce, because he's he's something of a genius.

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Jake: Well, let's continue on with the awareness portion, right? So

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Jake: in terms of the the power of Ctv as a brand awareness tool. You know, we work with lots of advertisers that are heavily focused on roas to sales, on spend. And we see that a lot with with any newer business, you know they're very, and then they should be. They want to be focused on the media revenue.

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Jake: But the counterpoint to that is that if you're just focusing at the bottom of the funnel. That's a finite number of people that exist at the bottom of the funnel, and you need to do some amount of awareness to put people into awareness and then consideration. So do you have

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Jake: any examples of

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Jake: campaigns you've run

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Jake: for, you know, maybe a larger brand where they had a decent budget, and they were running, you know, TV awareness. And then and then the the full funnel, using other tactics behind it to support it, and and where you've seen success.

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Andrew Rosenman: Sure and actually it's a almost an adjacent category. So I worked for a time around hard spirits for one of the hard spirits, majors and again restricted category. Self imposed restriction on television advertising. Actually. So it was never legislatively prohibited. It was the industry itself said, okay, we're not going to continue to advertise. They came back in recently.

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Andrew Rosenman: and so that marketing is really sophisticated and interesting. Because

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Andrew Rosenman: if you're launching. So this had to do with the launch of a premium spirit.

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Andrew Rosenman: And but it was on a brand that was already well known, just a new sort of extension of it.

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Andrew Rosenman: Spirits marketing is fascinating, because quite a lot of it happens at retail that Horaco Hotel, restaurant cafe is, you know, everything from bar mats to signage to also shelf talkers retail and things like that. So yeah, this had to do with the introduction of a super premium version of the spirit.

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Andrew Rosenman: and

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Andrew Rosenman: it. It just made sense to be able to deliver that messaging specifically to households that would also encounter the messaging and the tactics that were

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Andrew Rosenman: 360 also in in the environment, right? So none of this stuff stands alone. I think cannabis is fascinating, and I was in a conversation just this morning with an owner of a dispensary as well as a Cbd. Business getting ready for this, and really learned quite a lot.

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Andrew Rosenman: that where the market is from a maturity perspective.

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Andrew Rosenman: so much of brand

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Andrew Rosenman: so so much of brand velocity in the cannabis space

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Andrew Rosenman: is built on word of mouth

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Andrew Rosenman: and

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Andrew Rosenman: that to me was fascinating you you it. It seems it's just a really interesting category to establish the bona fides and the and the you know what are the benefits? What are the product benefits of an individual brand? Because it's experiential.

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Andrew Rosenman: So it it just it. It's almost a case in the cannabis and the CD. And the Wellness side that the messaging through Ctv.

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Andrew Rosenman: Almost needs to reinforce what is already being generated in the culture about that brand.

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Andrew Rosenman: and whether it's

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Andrew Rosenman: value for money, which is one brand we were talking about one is, you know. Then there's the deeply in the culture by working with rappers and other people. So I just I find the whole category fascinating. And I wish I had like a stock answer. But I'm still just getting immersed.

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Jake: Yeah, yeah, we've been encouraging our advertisers to push into Ctv, I think that

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Jake: yeah. And we do have an attribution solution. Now where we can measure. You know this household was served a Ctv. Ad. And then subsequently made a purchase on, you know whatever attribution window you want

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Jake: One of the bigger holdups that we've seen, though, is people being intimidated by the video production.

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Andrew Rosenman: It's.

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Jake: So I think a lot of people in their mind think I need to create like a super bowl ad if I'm gonna put something on TV. But if you go and are watching like a show on Amazon, Prime video, or whatever many of those ad units are not very sophisticated. Some of them are a little more than like a slideshow with the QR. Code.

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Jake: Do you have any

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Jake: metrics that you've seen even anecdotally of campaigns that were run on Ctv that were not sophisticated video productions. But still, you know, performed well from a you know, Kpi perspective.

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Andrew Rosenman: Yeah, for sure. So there's 1 financial services category client that we've been working with since 2019 on Ctv, they're very forward, right? Which is great share of voice, was fantastic. In 2019, before people really knew about it. I can tell you that

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Andrew Rosenman: what we've seen in terms of unaided awareness, right? By the time they're being targeted by by other things. But also, you know, the messaging around financial services.

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Andrew Rosenman: But conquesting somebody in the financial services. Realm is

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Andrew Rosenman: is a very long process, right? I don't know about you. Let me let me just ask, how long have you been with your primary bank?

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Jake: It's like 20 years.

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Andrew Rosenman: What about what would it take to get you to just move all your primary banking? I think about all the right, the-, the.

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Jake: Well, I'm actually in the process of doing that. And what it took was some some bad experiences with the bank didn't have anything to do with advertising had to do with the relationship I have with other bankers.

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Andrew Rosenman: Okay, well, there, you there, you have it. So something went wrong with your current provider. Wasn't that somebody else came along and said, hey? Let me entice you to have to go through all that right. So financial services are tricky getting people to buy, you know, investment products and think about the future and whatever they are, but what we've seen. And so we've got 5 years of data around the Ctv. And the efforts that we put in.

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Andrew Rosenman: and I can tell you I mean, look.

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Andrew Rosenman: you know, I try to avoid certainty. I think certainty is a trap.

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Andrew Rosenman: But I think the degree of education we've been able to put into those 30 second spots right? What are the primary benefits that you will receive?

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Andrew Rosenman: I think we know categorically that those have been like. And and we've demonstrated through research that that's been well communicated. So if your objective is to say, here are the 3 things that my product will do. It'll make your floor shiny. It'll, you know, make you a better person, whatever your claims are.

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Andrew Rosenman: it it works if you're consistent.

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Andrew Rosenman: and the other part that you brought up is that, look if you, if you demand some sort of metric on what's my row? As for every dollar, I put in. You're kind of missing the point right? Building a brand. And that investment, all of that.

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Andrew Rosenman: all that other lower funnel work that you're doing direct response

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Andrew Rosenman: and benefits from that right. That tide has risen. But you're not gonna continue to make that investment. And once you've built your brand in your cruising altitude, and you've established it. You've actually staked out a claim right? That's that's an ownable space. And I would encourage all

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Andrew Rosenman: brands in the cannabis space to think about their 40 acres in a mule.

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Andrew Rosenman: And and claim that, because if you don't, somebody else is gonna be living on your way.

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Jake: Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Let's talk more about awareness, as

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Jake: I'll call it a a squishy metric. I know there's lots of measurement tools for that, but especially especially in the cannabis space.

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Jake: All the brands are new from the from, like the basic concepts of a brand. Right. You know. Everything that is out in the market now hasn't been out for more than a decade at most. Maybe some of the legacy California brands

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Jake: have some, you know, local brand awareness, but to the broader market

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Jake: the brand awareness portion like. So we work. We started working with a

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Jake: large, like a large delivery service. And and this is actually several, you know, dispensary chains we've worked with where they had invested a bunch of money early on in billboards, right? And there were people that maybe thought that was a bad idea or a good idea.

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Jake: But I can. I can definitely tell you for companies that we work with that made that investment earlier on and got their name, at least in the psyche of the general populace of the market. The subsequent digital advertising. We did programmatic, you know, banner ads and basic video ads and things like that. They vastly outperform

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Jake: a brand that had not done that right?

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Jake: And so I think TV is a good medium for that. However.

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Jake: I think a lot of people are hung up on trying to measure it. In a way.

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Jake: they're trying to measure it the way they would measure like direct response campaigns. And and they're kind of skipping a part of the traditional marketing process. So I've tried to have this conversation many times. I'd be curious as to how you would approach that conversation if you were talking to an advertiser that is

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Jake: afraid of doing. Let's let's get past the creative production part. And let's say they've got that figured out. Now they're looking at. Okay.

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Jake: You really need to spend, you know.

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Jake: thousands of dollars. You know a bunch of them to to do an effective campaign.

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Jake: How do you arm the marketer to go back to their Cfo or their owner and say, This is this is a good investment.

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Andrew Rosenman: Well.

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Andrew Rosenman: you can either. You can either lean on. Okay. Here are the attributes of connected TV that are differentiated and valuable, right where you know, it's high impact. Ad, you know, retention and recall is so much higher when it's TV versus, you know, people have banner blindness. And you know, we could talk about all the other. You know

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Andrew Rosenman: it is a branding vehicle.

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Andrew Rosenman: So establishing the name. So your your out of home example is fascinating, right, and I think the reason why it works is like that. Billboard is stationary. Right? So it is. It is hitting a certain group of people who will be in that environment. And that's, you know, by definition who it is.

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Andrew Rosenman: the portability of a TV ad and the target ability of a TV ad. Now with Ctv. Is sort of an extraordinary opportunity. Right? So now I can. I can stick that billboard into a living room right of choice.

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Andrew Rosenman: and that

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Andrew Rosenman: that is super powerful, right? Because the activation side comes later can come through any of those other mechanisms right? And

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Andrew Rosenman: you know, digital standard targeting display. And you know the other things that you do, and retargeting.

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Andrew Rosenman: But

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Andrew Rosenman: look, it's not going to be a free for all forever.

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Andrew Rosenman: Right. People come up with portfolios of brands that fit into their lifestyle and that sort of match their values. And you, as a marketer, need to establish what those values are, and to

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Andrew Rosenman: your responsibility is to put that out into the marketplace to attract the people who share those values.

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Andrew Rosenman: That's all that that you know. I wish that

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Andrew Rosenman: there's no dark art here. That's the idea.

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Jake: Yeah, yeah, they're TV ads,

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Jake: what about some examples of where you've taken a Ctv activation for a brand? And you have tailored the creative itself towards multiple audiences. Right? And and how did you see like, what were the tactics that were used to to do that? And what kind of output did you see at all in terms of performance.

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Andrew Rosenman: So the example it's it's good. It's probably worth talking about.

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Andrew Rosenman: campaign or brand. Same advertiser. Multicultural

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Andrew Rosenman: side, right? And you know, objectively, the idea was, look, we want to reach and activate multicultural audiences, both Hispanic, American, African, American, Asian, American.

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Andrew Rosenman: And

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Andrew Rosenman: you know it. It turns out that behaviorally around the particular financial part of the financial services category. They were different, right? The values were different, you know, values around savings values around investing values around self directed versus guided right all those things and those things

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Andrew Rosenman: expose themselves through research. And then you use that as an input to say, okay, the benefits claims that we're making to the Hispanic American audience are going to be slightly different than they are to

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Andrew Rosenman: the African American audience, the Asian American audience. And so that's a very

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Andrew Rosenman: play, you know. It's a really clear example of how. Take your inputs right, get your insights, adjust your messaging to meet your market. Don't expect them to come to you because the general market messaging wasn't as effective. And so what we found we actually saw meaningful change in response rates.

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Jake: Yeah, you could do a similar concept with inside the cannabis industry. Because, you know, within the cannabis industry itself, there's a lot of different types of uses use cases right? You can always use the example of like people that like high Thc, vape carts versus people that like sleep gummies. Right? Those are very. They're fundamentally different products. They just happen to be the same category of, you know, plants that made it

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Jake: so

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Jake: in that case you could do sort of product differentiation right? So if you had, let's say you, you've got a customer list, you know who your

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Jake: you know your vape users are, and you know who your gummy purchases are. You could be running a campaign same brand but different product offerings in the creative itself to different audiences.

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Andrew Rosenman: So you know one of the things I learned through, you know my days being a recovering agency, guy now, but I think is still true is you never sell features, you sell benefits right? So for the gummy customer. So I'll give you an example. We never talked about speed, you know, maximum speed or acceleration. We talked about performance. We never talked about breaking

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Andrew Rosenman: alright and cornering. We talked about safety, right?

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Andrew Rosenman: So you know, for somebody who's suffering from insomnia.

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Andrew Rosenman: You're meeting a particular consumer need for somebody who's dealing with anxiety, social anxiety, right? Which apparently is accelerating like crazy. Since Covid, you're you're you're meeting a consumer need. Right? Same? Thc, right? It may be that people want, you know, high potency, for

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Andrew Rosenman: whatever reason, let's not, you know, dissect their reasoning.

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Andrew Rosenman: But I would suggest that marketers come to understand what needs state their products, fulfill and build messages around fulfilling needs versus around

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Andrew Rosenman: their product dimensions.

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Jake: Yeah.

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Jake: yeah, that makes sense. Then, yeah, it needs

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Jake: needs versus features. That's that's a good point.

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Andrew Rosenman: Okay, that's 1 for me.

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Jake: Yeah, we'll keep a scoreboard.

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Jake: I think you're up. I think you're up more than 1 point so on, you know, dovetailing into that. We sometimes get

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Jake: new advertisers. And they want to run ads, and they want to run ads to

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Jake: basically just their shop page. Right?

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Andrew Rosenman: Is it.

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Jake: And and they're skipping that sort of need benefit

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Jake: part of the conversation that should happen with the consumer. As to what? Why, you know.

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Jake: why do they want these things versus? Just? Here's things that I have to sell.

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Jake: Do you think that

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Jake: you that you can leverage Ctv effectively to

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Jake: prepare someone

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Jake: prior to landing on a shopping experience.

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Jake: In a similar way that like, usually, you're doing just digital campaign online banners or native or whatever you usually want to take someone to a landing page that's tied to the activation, right? So here's the particular product or feature that we're selling. We take you to a landing page. We we do some validation, earn some trust. So some social proof, all that say, look, this is the sales pitch effectively, and then you go to the shopping experience.

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Andrew Rosenman: Right.

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Jake: Have you seen

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Jake: examples of like TV activations where

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Jake: you can do enough in 30 seconds to get the person

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Jake: to a point where they can just go and purchase more than if they just went to the site from clicking on a link.

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Andrew Rosenman: I don't know that

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Andrew Rosenman: the duration is right for that. I mean, I tell you, I think

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Andrew Rosenman: I was thinking about this today when I was speaking with the fellows. The dispensary owner, you know, a Qvc. For cannabis would be the best channel ever.

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Andrew Rosenman: It just would right, because Qvc. Moves a ton of merchandise. Right? Why? Because it's just nothing but like a Barker channel for product. It's just people, you know, telling you this is wonderful advocating for the product in like 10 or 15 min sort of

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Andrew Rosenman: chunks, and it's long enough to tell a complex story.

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Andrew Rosenman: Can. This is 30 seconds long enough to tell a a convincing, complex story.

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Andrew Rosenman: Probably. Maybe

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Andrew Rosenman: maybe.

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Jake: Well, that's not a bad idea. Should we go start a channel.

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Andrew Rosenman: I think I think we should, and I think the truth is, you know, we we'd probably print money if we did it, and you just invite in. You know, I was thinking about it like some of the most. Look at cookies right? Like he's aggregating brands. Yeah, he's finding. And he's bringing in product. And then people, you know immediately there's like the imprimer of of Okay, it's coming under the umbrella of somebody I already trust. Let me

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Andrew Rosenman: let me consider it. So. Yeah, I mean, I I you know I do that in a minute. You just gotta

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Andrew Rosenman: you know, you just gotta organize everyone to come on in. I think there is that middle step. I think you're right. You're you're talking about it. I think that middle step may just be a retail, though. And so that's where things are. Really this, this industry is different than most right, because your product selection from

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Andrew Rosenman: retail location or retail location is gonna vary like orders of magnitude.

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Jake: Yeah.

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Andrew Rosenman: That's right, I mean, look, I'm in New Jersey, right? We've got

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Andrew Rosenman: it's it's it's a little bit different here.

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Andrew Rosenman: if you establish a brand and a desire for a particular brand. What what I'm told is that people walk into these retail establishments saying, I want X right. They've got a picture of it on their phone. They they already know what they want.

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Andrew Rosenman: which is good. You just gotta make sure you have it.

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Jake: Yeah.

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Jake: that makes sense.

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Jake: Alright. Let's talk about

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Jake: kpis and outcomes.

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Jake: you've mentioned some campaigns where you're doing, you know, split testing with different multicultural segments. And you said that you know, there were positive performance indicators.

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Jake: What is someone gonna try to look for from a positive indicator other than like, obviously just like.

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Jake: did sales go up right? How do you

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Jake: talk about that?

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Andrew Rosenman: I mean, like, did sales go up? Did inquiries go up right? I mean, you're driving somebody to the the great thing is a lot of this is direct to consumer right? So brands themselves have their own ability to

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Andrew Rosenman: move merchandise right from their own owned and operated domains, which is great. They also have distributors.

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Andrew Rosenman: which is, you know, a bit of channel conflict going on there. You got distributors advertising.

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Andrew Rosenman: telling people to buy, you know, multi product from them. You've got individual brands advertising.

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Andrew Rosenman: saying, Buy my brand. You could buy it direct, buy it from somebody else. I think the kpis I would look for. I would start with the basic kpis, did I deliver in full right what percentage of my total addressable market did I reach?

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Andrew Rosenman: At what frequency? And do I even know what frequency is necessary to start driving performance metrics?

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Andrew Rosenman: I would do that first.st

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Jake: Yeah, well, let's dig in on frequency, then, cause that's something that people have different opinions about.

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Jake: when you're talking to a brand doesn't matter wh. Whatever the size, it could be. A city or state or national, whatever

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Jake: what are some guidelines that you would give people in terms of frequency, like how many ads to an actual household

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Jake: of the same ad are served in a week, or day or month?

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Jake: Let's just get rid of all the political stuff, because we know how that works and talk about the

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Jake: real world, so to speak. How do you think about that?

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Andrew Rosenman: I think about it in a couple of ways. 1st of all, try not to think of it in silo, like people always talk about. Well, what's my frequency on my TV campaign? Well, if you're also on radio and you're doing direct mail, and you're doing. And you're doing right. You need to contemplate all those points of contact that a consumer may have with your brand

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Andrew Rosenman: right? So the frequency by channel is almost an arbitrary number.

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Andrew Rosenman: right? And you want to look in in some categories, you know, mature categories.

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Andrew Rosenman: A lot of media plans start with television. So you figure out the optimal frequency for a campaign. And, by the way, that can change over the course of a campaign, right? You may want.

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Andrew Rosenman: you know, 2 X frequency. You have at the beginning of a 5 week campaign. Then you have at the end right? Because you've established it, and you're sort of moving into other tactics by the end.

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Andrew Rosenman: so there is no set answer. The only advice I would give would be to say, if TV is where you're starting.

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Andrew Rosenman: and then start there and then calculate the frequency of what you need and everything else, including your digital media, your native and your display. And you know your Olv

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Andrew Rosenman: as a compliment to.

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Andrew Rosenman: Now, if you're already doing those other things, and you're coming in and you're starting to do. Ctv, you really need to think about. Okay.

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Andrew Rosenman: am I, you know, is this excess, and

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Andrew Rosenman: the other thing is, make sure that you're actually reaching the same people. One of the hardest things to do with Ctv is to, you know.

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Andrew Rosenman: sorry.

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Andrew Rosenman: Make sure that that reach is matching your digital reach.

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Jake: And what do you? What do you mean by that like? Where's the difficulty?

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Andrew Rosenman: Well, I mean, there are a lot of it sounds like you have a solution.

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Andrew Rosenman: Right? So you're you're able to retarget people who've been exposed to Ctv. Is that right?

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Jake: Yeah, that is correct.

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Andrew Rosenman: Great that's that, you know. That really wasn't the case a couple of years ago.

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Andrew Rosenman: You know it. It wasn't perfect, and you know. Let's be honest, Jake. Your your solution is probably gonna keep getting better. So as good as it is today.

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Andrew Rosenman: it will keep improving.

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Andrew Rosenman: but that you know, just connecting the the formats. It's not this, like you can probably understand your reach across your native display, you know, native display and olv simple right? It's cookie, based probably, or 3rd

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Andrew Rosenman: 3rd party. Id right.

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Jake: Yeah, there's yeah. There's a few different identifiers. I guess I was looking for more philosophical of, you know, there's some old adages around a consumer need to see your brand 10 times or 15 times or a dozen times and or 20. And we're talking about. I'm mostly talking about newer brands. Because a lot of that, the brands there's no household brands really in in cannabis. So

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Jake: if someone says, Okay, well, I want to put my budget together. I want to reach these 50,000 people that are in the market around my store. And my Cpm is $30, or whatever it ends up being

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Jake: How many dollars should I be spending on those 50,000 people in order to get at least some seed of brand awareness on Ctv. And then ideally follow up with some, you know cheaper formats and amplify that message.

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Andrew Rosenman: Well, not all. 50,000 of those people will be reachable on Ctv. So your universe may not be 50. So the 1st thing to figure out is, what is my actual addressable universe.

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Andrew Rosenman: Then the question becomes.

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Andrew Rosenman: and look, there's no there, there's no perfect way to do this. If you're establishing a new brand, particularly in a category. That's

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Andrew Rosenman: I.

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Andrew Rosenman: Okay, so it's 50,000 that you are certain are open to messaging around a controlled category.

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Jake: Sure. Let's just state. Let's just assume that we've we've done a reach analysis. And we think we can reach 50,000 people via Ctv. That are inside of our target cohort.

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Andrew Rosenman: Okay.

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Andrew Rosenman: you know I wouldn't go light. Let's put it that way. I would not have an upper threshold.

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Andrew Rosenman: you know, like, you know. Set it super high. Set it, you know, 20 or 30, or something like there. There is. No, there's really no downside when you're establishing a brand to being too

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Andrew Rosenman: noticed.

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Andrew Rosenman: Yeah, the diminishing returns will happen later.

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Andrew Rosenman: but not in the early phase.

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Andrew Rosenman: That's that's.

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Jake: Yeah. But I mean, we have a similar thing. I mean, even with just programmatic display.

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Jake: We'll have conversations with people. And let's say it's a national. I'll put that in quotes because national hemp is not really national. But you know, let's say the legal States and they've got a budget. They want to spend $20,000. And you're like that's not. You don't want to target the country with that, because your impressions are going to be so dispersed that you're going to get a handful of people that all see one impression right? So you want to get dozens of impressions in front of someone ideally. So what we tell people like, okay, well, pick

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Jake: for that. But if you're that's your budget like, pick a city right? Or if it's a large city. Pick a handful of zip codes where you can actually get some brand equity out of the investment. Otherwise I feel like it's it's it's kind of a wasted effort. If you, if it's too dispersed.

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Andrew Rosenman: You know, I was thinking about this earlier, just from the conversation I had with the the dispensary owner earlier.

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Andrew Rosenman: I think the objective at this point, for brands in the cannabis field is potentially use those budgets to create advocates

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Andrew Rosenman: because those connector advocates in the communities are going to be able to amplify that brand message into the cohort in a way that Media may not be able to.

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Andrew Rosenman: So, in an even more concentrated way, see if you can figure out, who is that Maven in the group

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Andrew Rosenman: right like, what does that profile look like? Who is a thought, you know, influencer? And, you know, build your media effort around

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Andrew Rosenman: converting people who will convert other people.

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Jake: I see. So in that instance, maybe it's identifying a smaller target audience that you think fall into this sort of maven category and then focusing budget towards them.

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Andrew Rosenman: I mean I I don't think you can.

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Andrew Rosenman: I don't think it's 1 or the other right. On the one hand, if you have a cohort. And you know, all right, these are potential consumers, right? And potentially, they're, you know.

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Andrew Rosenman: you know, potentially, they're already buying other brands.

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Andrew Rosenman: What you don't know is why.

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Andrew Rosenman: you know, you're coming at it with the, you know. So almost the, you know sort of brute force approach of. I know that they're currently buying in this category. I'm going to tell them that I'm going to tell them things about my product.

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Andrew Rosenman: I would say that it's

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Andrew Rosenman: probably a better use of money to figure out why they're buying that particular brand, for you know whether or not it's for insomnia, whether it's for, you know, arthritic pain, right if it's for you know mental health and wellness. If it's for focus and concentration, whatever the the consumer rationale is.

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Andrew Rosenman: if you can get to that, then your spend can be that much more efficient.

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Andrew Rosenman: But I you know again, I'm still a huge believer in creating advocates.

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Andrew Rosenman: because we're just in the in the development of this marketplace. Right?

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Andrew Rosenman: That's that's where it's happening. It's kind of ground up.

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Jake: Yeah.

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Jake: how would you? Talk to someone who's let's say they're new to advertising. We frequently run into this. We run into dispensaries or brands that have done really no advertising right? And they're just trying to get into the get into it. So you're operating on a complete blank slate from a media perspective

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Jake: and doesn't matter what the budget is. Let's just say it's it's just X right. And and we're gonna say that we're gonna slice that pie up that budget up between Ctv brand awareness work.

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Jake: targeted programmatic potentially some other channels like you mentioned, like radio or mailers.

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Jake: and I know this is a a difficult question to answer. So, looking for really sort of broad ideas.

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Jake: would you say, like, Okay, take half your budget, put it towards brand awareness. Put half your budget or a quarter of it over here to retention, and a quarter over here to like offers, or

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Jake: where's where's a starting point for someone who's done nothing

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Jake: right in terms of budget allocation amongst these different types of formats.

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Andrew Rosenman: I mean, I've looked at the area of influence right? The AI, I mean so much of this revolves around.

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Andrew Rosenman: If your latitude and long longitude of where you can access the product right? If it's e-commerce, it's not

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Andrew Rosenman: right, if it's if it's direct. But if this really is, drive to retail. Understand that retail environment. Understand what digital out of home may be available

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Andrew Rosenman: right within that specific radius. Right? Make sure you're capturing that. Make sure you are saturating

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Andrew Rosenman: those touch points

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Andrew Rosenman: because that's really going to give you a lot of value early on.

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Andrew Rosenman: you know, if if it's straight up, look, we're national. You can order our stuff from anywhere because it's

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Andrew Rosenman: because it's possible. I think you're right. I don't. I don't think you know.

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Andrew Rosenman: 20 grand for for a full national campaign is is gonna do it? I mean.

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Andrew Rosenman: I look.

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Andrew Rosenman: I don't have a specific answer. Again, it comes down to.

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Andrew Rosenman: I think the important thing to try for people who don't have experience in advertising to realize is you're not chasing a single transaction.

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Andrew Rosenman: You're you're chasing loyalty right? And you're you're chasing brand loyalty.

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Andrew Rosenman: And once you've established that the transactions become less expensive and less difficult to make. But if you, advertising, as you know, a coin operated thing. I put this money in. I get this out. Then every transaction is going to have effectively the same sort of cost. Brand allows you to reduce that cost over time, and to maintain those customers over time. You have to recapture a customer every time.

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Jake: That's it.

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Andrew Rosenman: Difference between durable brands.

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Andrew Rosenman: and you know folks would come and go.

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Jake: Yeah.

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Jake: got a sort of 2 part question. Then. One is, have you seen any data points on the amount of brand equity or stature that is given psychologically for someone seeing an ad on TV versus seeing an ad on a website or on their phone and the second part of that is that

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Jake: I think everyone has experienced this at some point. When there's a product that you like that you have an affinity with, and you have it in your life. And when you see the ad for it on TV, there's a level of validation there to like, oh, yeah, look, that's my, you know Shoe company, or whatever it is right. I have that thing. And I know in automotive. You probably know this a more accurate number. I thought it was. I've heard it was like half or something, but

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Jake: some large portion of the automotive budgets, especially for luxury brands are being served specifically to existing owners to make them continue to feel good about the brand purchase that they made in the past, so that when they go to get a new car. They still want to stick with that brand.

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Jake: So

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Jake: I know I asked you like 3 questions in one there, so I'll let you answer it. However, you like.

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Andrew Rosenman: Well, I mean you. If you're okay, whatever architecture you built this brand on, right, you you need to be consistent, right? You can't necessarily go from saying.

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Andrew Rosenman: I, you know, like, here are the great things about this brand, and then change it radically

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Andrew Rosenman: the next time you know.

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Andrew Rosenman: So so. So that's important. I think you're right about reinforcing and reestablishing. Yeah, repurchase is everything

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Andrew Rosenman: right? Particularly on long considered purchase. Right? Share of driveway. Right? You're only getting a shot at that every 3 to 7 years right on in this category. It's still really important, right? Because

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Andrew Rosenman: think about it. If you know precisely. This is my brand. It we, you know there are shared values that we have, whether it's organic or it's, you know, you know, tested and approved by a 3rd party, whatever that is like. This is a different sort of thing. Right? This is something you put into your body right? This is something right which which changes the calculus. It really does. It makes it much more like

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Andrew Rosenman: I don't want to say a pharmaceutical, but it but it really is a different calculation from a psychological perspective.

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Andrew Rosenman: So but you know, it's less of an of an expression of who you are right. I wear these clothes, or this is the mark of car that I drive. But

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Andrew Rosenman: important, nonetheless.

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Andrew Rosenman: Re repurchase is the ultimate Kpi.

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Jake: Yeah.

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Jake: So what about circling back to the the 1st part of my statement in terms of, have you ever seen any studies or data that show

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Jake: the difference in value psychologically, for a consumer to see a brand on on TV in their living room when they're watching a show versus an ad while they're checking the weather on their phone. There's there's got to be some subconscious like.

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Jake: you know, elevation. The of the fact that you're actually your brands on TV.

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Andrew Rosenman: Well, I mean, there's a lot of stuff going on with.

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Andrew Rosenman: What is it? Attention? Metrics these days?

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Jake: Yes.

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Andrew Rosenman: And it's fascinating to see that

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Andrew Rosenman: come to the fore, and how it's being measured and eye tracking. And you know they've got these things. There's a company called T. Vision that has measurement

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Andrew Rosenman: product that's, you know, in the home and checks whether or not people are paying attention. So

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Andrew Rosenman: you know the the psychological, the validation part, you know. Yeah, you get your validation from seeing it there. But I I think human beings are also just. I mean, we're sort of, we're sort of basic right like you get validation for people

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Andrew Rosenman: much more than you get validation from.

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Jake: That's why I see celebrities in the TV ads.

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Andrew Rosenman: You, you can, I mean, look recognizing. Look, projecting yourself into a scene. It's the reason why I like advertising is, you know, so much of it is aspiration right? And so

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Andrew Rosenman: I think the role of advertising is more to make you

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Andrew Rosenman: consider right from a consideration perspective being.

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Andrew Rosenman: you know part of that.

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Andrew Rosenman: You know what you see. The lifestyle, which is why I think so much of the culture stuff around cannabis is so important, right? Whether it's the, you know, these cultural ambassadors endorsing the products like, that's high value stuff

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Andrew Rosenman: and putting that onto TV would just be

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Andrew Rosenman: great. So maybe we figured something out here, Jake. It's

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Andrew Rosenman: Qvc. For cannabis

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Andrew Rosenman: with cultural ambassadors.

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Jake: Absolutely. You gotta have segments for all the different different cultural categories they get, like, you know, a half hour spot.

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Andrew Rosenman: Yeah, yeah, I mean, look, you get you get your Martha Stewart of weed right?

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Jake: Yeah.

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Andrew Rosenman: She, you know, just just doing like here, here, right there could be line, you know, line extensions, you know. Here's your bakeware and other stuff like, sure. There's somebody right now in Silicon Valley, pitching this idea as they hear it live to a venture, Guy.

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Jake: Yeah. It'll be funded by tomorrow.

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Andrew Rosenman: Right? Oh, yeah, no, it's the the spec. This fact just closed. We're not even. We're not even.

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Jake: Oh, don't say it's back.

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Andrew Rosenman: It's it's done, you know. It's done.

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Jake: I thought so. I mean, are people still doing specs? I thought they would. Kinda

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Jake: I'll die it off. But maybe that's still happening.

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Andrew Rosenman: You know. That's that's so. 2022, I guess.

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Jake: Yeah, this all news.

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Andrew Rosenman: No, I mean, look, we're sitting here divulging like the greatest idea the greatest idea ever but maybe tune in next week, and we'll we'll try.

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Jake: Yeah, we'll start. Well, we could start with like, not a full 24 h channel. But you know, a some segments like a couple of hours a day.

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Jake: I guess I mean, you have 2 challenges. You're gonna need some really good ventilation in the studio

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Jake: and probably. You know, you might have some some issues launching your episodes on time, depending on, you know who's in charge of the production.

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Andrew Rosenman: And queue cards. I why don't we? Why don't we start this? I still think Shark Tank for cannabis

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Andrew Rosenman: would be key

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Andrew Rosenman: right.

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Jake: I've seen that happen at conferences a little bit like little mini ones where they have like a pitch competition.

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Jake: But I haven't seen one broadcast, like as a.

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Andrew Rosenman: I could just, I can just only imagine, like he's being declared a tie every time like it's all great.

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Jake: Yeah, it's all great. Well, you'd have to build that into the the like. The League rules, right? Which is, ties are not allowed.

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Andrew Rosenman: That's it. Sudden death right! Whoever.

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Jake: Well, I mean, yeah. You force people to vote and have an odd number of, you know judges.

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Jake: I agree.

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Andrew Rosenman: A lot of judges.

401
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Jake: Well, they're probably gonna be odd judges, at least at least some of them.

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Andrew Rosenman: Sure I mean they're not going to be. You know your your typical Supreme Court nominee, but you know, would play. I think he'd get in there. He likes.

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Jake: Yeah.

404
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Jake: Maybe we should go to Shark tank and pitch. The idea of Shark Tank for cannabis

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Jake: to be very.

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Andrew Rosenman: Birthday.

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Jake: On shark tank. Yes.

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Andrew Rosenman: Yeah. Let's go.

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Jake: There we go! Alright good that we're now we're doing next week. Alright. So we're kind of wrapping up on time. But I do wanted to. I wanted to talk a little bit about

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Jake: storytelling and branding. I am a broken record on this. I tell people all the time, you know, marketing is about storytelling human beings connect with stories. That's your most powerful way that you can communicate.

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Jake: Television represents, I think, a much greater opportunity to do storytelling because you have someone's. Generally you have their attention for a 15 or 30 or 45 second spot.

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Jake: Maybe they walk out of the room, but a lot of people are going to be looking at it. It's not surrounded by a bunch of other things, and you've got a block of time

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Jake: where you get to actually talk to the consumer right rather than just hoping that they'll read your ad, or hoping that they'll read a native ad or whatever it is. So

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Jake: when you.

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Jake: when you enable that level of communication between the brand and the consumer.

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Jake: what are some guidelines that you would give someone again. Somebody's never done this before of how you best use that right, as because some people might think, oh, I've got this ad. I do my green Wednesday sale. I'm gonna put that on TV

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Jake: right. And yes, you're going to get a little bit better attention. But you're not really leveraging the opportunity that you have.

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Andrew Rosenman: Yeah, that's not really a story, is it?

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Jake: No.

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Andrew Rosenman: Like a price. Promotion isn't a story.

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Andrew Rosenman: You know the the 3 piece of marketing and all that. I think you're absolutely right. I think advocacy. I think testimonials go a long way. I think if you're if you're establishing a brand that sits across multiple products, though.

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Andrew Rosenman: And this really is about brand, right? So there are what 11 different varieties of Coca-cola these days. Right? But Coke Brand is what creates the interest. And oh, you know that flavor, less sugar, less caffeine, whatever is there? So if you have a you know multi brand right mo, you know, or multi product portfolio underneath the brand.

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Andrew Rosenman: I would keep it very high level. Choose the 2, maybe 3 things that you want people to think

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Andrew Rosenman: and associate with your brand. And a lot of this comes down to look. Brand design is not easy. You got to choose your name, your colors, your sound. How you you know the brand voice. Right? Don't think that it just sort of falls out like, Oh, yeah, it's the name of my company, right? You need to really calculate this and make sure that it's authentic

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Andrew Rosenman: and and and can be delivered in a way that you.

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Andrew Rosenman: you know you believe in, and you and you can replicate.

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Andrew Rosenman: So keep it tight. Right? Decide, what are we saying? How do we want to say it? What does it feel? What does our brand feel like? And I think you're right. A lot of folks in the category haven't taken the moment to do that.

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Jake: My.

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Andrew Rosenman: It's the part where I get to say I'm happy to help them do that. You know I've done this a couple of times. I I would have a lot of fun doing that with an emerging cannabis.

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Jake: Yeah. And so that is an exercise that

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Jake: that you can go through with someone right and and help them. Okay, they're like, all right, I'm gonna do it. I want to get on TV. I wanna I wanna tell my story. When you work with companies, do, you actually will take the time if they want to sit down and kind of help them

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Jake: come up with their story, and what they should be saying.

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Andrew Rosenman: Absolutely. I came from a full service agency like, I'm not just a media guy, right? Like you, yeah. And in fact, that's the only way to to get it, to really work

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Andrew Rosenman: and and to feel. You know, you have to go through some of these processes so that the brands feel great about their choices. Right? This is who we are, part of deciding who you are as a brand

435
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Andrew Rosenman: is deciding who you're gonna know.

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Jake: Yeah.

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Andrew Rosenman: It's the hard thing for folks to do. Everybody wants to appeal to everybody, but the most successful brands understand that their appeal is specific.

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Jake: Yeah.

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Jake: yeah, that's a conversation we have pretty frequently, because, you know, we start off the conversation. Say, who are you trying to reach? And unfortunately, most of the time the answer is, everyone right? Then we need to have a conversation about that, and you can approach it from a number of ways, if you want to just give them like the reality situation is.

440
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Jake: you don't have enough money to reach everyone. So let's not try and do that just to start with. But the the other thing is is you need you need to understand that.

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Jake: For again, storytelling to be effective, it needs to resonate with the person you're talking to, and people are very different from each other.

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Jake: So you can't have one activation that is going to be effective on everyone. So design your activation around a specific group of people. Try to connect with them in a voice that they appreciate and and don't try to send that message as much as possible to people that are either going to be like apathetic about that message, or on the worst side, actually dislike it.

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Andrew Rosenman: Well voice is something that's gonna run through every message that you ever send in the future. So get real comfortable with how, how you sound how you you know how you present right messages can change. You might end up with a price promotion for green Wednesdays that might happen, but it has to come in, the, you know, in, you know, surrounded by whatever you've decided.

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Andrew Rosenman: your brand

445
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Andrew Rosenman: feels like.

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Jake: Yeah. Yeah. Agree?

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Jake: Alright. Well, we're closing up on the hour here. Are there any

448
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Jake: tidbits you want to convey things? I didn't ask you that I that maybe you.

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Andrew Rosenman: We have 2 questions. I'm looking at the Q. And a. Because I'm a. I'm a heck of a good guest.

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Jake: Oh, yeah, alright, I didn't actually see the questions there. Sorry about that.

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Jake: Let's see, let's

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Jake: Okay, over. We have a question about Massachusetts has to be 85% over 21. That number varies by state. Sometimes it's 73. New York, I think, is 90. How can Ctv accommodate this. You wanna take this one.

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Andrew Rosenman: My understanding is that you know, sort of age gating on TV is nowhere near as complex. Ctv is nowhere near as complicated as online.

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Jake: So the way that

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Jake: the way that we do it is by targeting households at based on the demographics we know about that household, right. So we know whether or not there's a presence of children. We know the general age range of those households. And you can devise a media plan to be in compliance with those rules that's actually like

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Jake: kind of one on one. For everything that we have to do, knowing knowing age, age, and geography is is everything like we have now. There's just last week in

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Jake: I forget which state it was. But you know there's a specific set of cities.

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Jake: That have outlawed hemp products in this case, right? And obviously, you've got different legalization. But it's not even at the state level. Sometimes it's down to the county or city level. We have to do blackouts. And like, okay, we can't run any ads here in this circle, but we can run them over here, and then, of course, making sure that we're targeting households and channels that that are for mature audiences.

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Andrew Rosenman: Great.

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Jake: Other question here, partner, for historical look back. Data. Okay, so yeah, this is for walk-ins. So this is. And we use this tactic quite a bit. This is

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Jake: Susan, I forget what company you're with. If you want to put in chat, I'll mention you. But this is a tactic that we use for all kinds of digital which is drawing polygons around physical locations, finding device ids that have been seen in that location, and then using that as a target audience, we use this all the time for dispensary visitors. Right? So we have all the dispensaries Geo framed. We've got an audience of, you know, device Ids that have been seen there.

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Jake: And we do also have a device identity graph. So we can correlate those devices back to the households in which they reside, which then will allow you to do Ctv. Targeting. Once you know, the household level data

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Jake: cumulus media. That was Susan from cumulus media, mentioning that. So it's a highly effective tactic. It works works well for a lot of things and not just for cannabis. It can be for anything. We use it for restaurants or gyms, or

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Jake: any any way any tactic you can come up with. That involves understanding your

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Jake: target consumers past physical behavior comes into play here. And I've seen some very

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Jake: creative uses of this with some campaigns before. So

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Jake: good good.

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Andrew Rosenman: No.

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Jake: Alright! Andrew, anything else while we have you today.

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Andrew Rosenman: No, thank you for having me. I was. I was I was a little nervous about it. But this is fun.

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Jake: Yeah, yeah, it's not. It's not too hard.

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Jake: maybe you can close up andrew Rosemond, you the what's the name of your company. How can people reach you if they wanna

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Jake: and get on there?

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Andrew Rosenman: There is a new website that's coming. I should really sort of finalize. You can. You can find us find me on Linkedin, if you like. It's a good way right now. So going into year 20 of doing this so the the name that will be coming in 2025 is similar. But we're kind of speaking of branding. It's kind of a rebranding rebird, so not quite 21, so it might not be legal yet. But we're

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Andrew Rosenman: we will be by 2026. Yeah, I'd love to hear from anyone, you know. (212) 398-2121 speaking of 21 calls here in New York or find us on Linkedin. This is a pleasure love to work with brands in this category. I find it just fascinating, and also, you know, just difficult enough to make it really like fun.

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Jake: Yeah, yeah, it is. It is

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Jake: challenging, but not boring. So.

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Andrew Rosenman: And you never be bored. Thanks for doing this, Jake.

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Jake: Yeah, absolutely thanks. Thanks, Andrew.

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Jake: Have a good day. Everyone.